Very true - you could have people sign up to one list, and then send them messages totally unrelated to what they signed up for.

But like you point out, that wouldn’t be a good idea. And after the ensuing complaints, the ISP would come asking what people did sign up for, and where. And they’re not going to consider that sort of action to be in line with the "one subscription, one list" idea - even if technically within our system structure it is one "list."

As I mentioned in my response to Lori’s comment, I do understand (as all of us do here at AWeber) that some subscriptions are more closely related than others. But a review system where we look at every list individually and say "OK, Joe’s lists are related enough to treat as one subscription, but we don’t feel that Chris’ are, so he needs to use separate/independent subscriptions" isn’t feasible and would cause more issues than it would resolve.

You have to draw the line somewhere. We draw it where we do because it most closely adheres to the "one subscription, one list" idea, and because it’s the fairest way to do things.

Bill, the funny thing about CAN-SPAM is that it doesn’t require any consent at all! That’s right; go read it yourself. A lot of people assume it does, but it doesn’t. It requires a few things like including your postal address, but nowhere does it say the person has to agree to receive your messages! I’m not saying you shouldn’t get permission, just that CAN-SPAM doesn’t require it like you might assume.

On the multiple lists thing, I don’t get the argument. You could have one giant list, and have a signup form offering dog tips, but send people messages about stock investing, video games, recipes, etc. Of course that would be dumb but would comply with the single list idea. What’s the difference between doing that and automatically putting dog subscribers on your stock list? None that I see, as far as the messages people get.

I don’t see the problem with multiple lists if the info is related to what they signed up for.

Let’s not forget- every single one of these messages has an unsubscribe link, so people can easily stop getting them. And we ARE talking about email, not bricks thrown through someone’s window.

While it’s true that there’s not typically an "are you sure?" dialog box that comes up when someone presses the Spam button, there are measures that email users can take advantage of to tell their ISP when a false positive has occurred.

Many ISPs including Yahoo! have a "Not Spam" or "Not Junk" button that will move a message from the bulk folder to the inbox and report the false positive.

For more on filtering, sender reputation and how "Spam" and "Not Spam" reports are used, check out this report (PDF) from Google on how they sort out wanted and unwanted email.

It’s also worth noting that permission, and whether you use Confirmed Opt-In, is not the only factor affecting deliverability. Other factors include relevancy, end-user feedback and the reputation that derives from them.

I agree with you that there are remarkable differences between postal mail and email when. Unfortunately, in the case of email, one additional difference to the one you mention involves the lack of cost for spammers to send thousands or even millions of unwanted messages. Meanwhile, there is a set, metered rate for postal mail.

It’s also important to note that physical mail is a public service, closely regulated using public resources, while email is very much in the private realm.

For these reasons, it doesn’t look like we will see laws introduced that closely regulate how ISPs manage email messages, at least not in the immediate future.

We should keep in mind that it really is in the interest of ISPs to deliver messages that their subscribers want, and from my experience they work hard to accomplish this. On the other hand, they are deluged with so many spam messages that do their best to look like requested mail, so false positives may occur occasionally.

Fortunately, there are simple things we can do to very clearly differentiate our email from spam so that this type of issues does not affect our businesses.

I still have some things I’ve double opted into, yet they wind up in my bulk folder.

I don’t trust anything these email providers tell us on this topic- it’s like the stuff Google publishes about ranking highly.

Clearly, ISPs need to have some sort of requirement under the law to deliver valid opt in email, and it is foolishness to suggest that because they don’t, our businesses are not losing profit.

Then, in every general newsletter I send out, I have links at the bottom for my other two lists - one a "local" email list (for those who live within driving distance and may be interested in our open houses), and one advertising our (hopeful) honeywine business. Every newsletter, I get a few more people signing up for the other lists.

The point, though, is that they are advertised as separate lists, so even with double opt-in, people know what they are getting themselves into.

On the note of NOT using double opt-in… Well, compare it to snail mail. I really don’t want to send a snail advert to someone who doesn’t want it, and waste the postage. I’m not big enough to eat the advertising cost. By the same token, I don’t want to send mass emails to people who don’t want them. I can’t afford to waste the time and loss of income from fighting the ISP’s to be allowed back in.

(On a side note - I’m having trouble right now with my webhosts mailservers getting blacklisted, and they are working on implementing new policies. The aWeber account gets through, but I find myself unable to answer some questions because the response gets bounced back as spam. They have been working on this for a few weeks now, but it takes a lot of paperwork and proof before some of these ISP’s will reinstate you. I’m real glad aWeber works hard at keeping clean - every time I send out a newsletter, I get another $600-$1,000 in orders….)

I’m still learning so much!

I’m glad to hear that you’ll be joining us Thursday!

This is an area that can be complicated for email marketers. A policy of "one subscription, one list" (as described at MAPS and other places) is something that we believe all email marketers should adhere to.

For example, we do this with our own campaigns - a unique confirm email is sent to people signing up for our Test Drive, Affiliate News, User News, Blog Updates… the list goes on. They all use Confirmed Opt-In for all subscribers, no matter what other lists those subscribers are on.

I can definitely see the argument that there’s some grey area here (some subscriptions are more closely related than others). But when push comes to shove, ISPs want to see that your subscribers have provided affirmative consent for the specific set of information you’re sending. Proof that Susie Subscriber confirmed to list A, when she’s complaining about an email from list B, isn’t particularly helpful.

By treating different sets of information as discrete subscriptions/lists, you help minimize spam complaints that can arise from subscribers feeling that those messages aren’t relevant to what they signed up for and expected to receive from you. And in doing that, you maximize your deliverability.